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Trouble ahead, trouble behind
newsmakers Totalitarianism. Urban pathology. The death of creativity. These are the fears that keep John Perry Barlow awake at night. The co-founder of the 12-year-old Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) tries not to be bleak. But he sincerely worries that Microsoft will usurp e-commerce and AOL Time Warner will seize media, and the two forces will extinguish dissenting voices in a "diabolical" plot to own the economy and the human mind. But Barlow, perhaps best known as a lyricist for the Grateful Dead, isn't entirely forlorn. He's optimistic that courts will soon strike down the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), a 1998 agreement that banned unauthorized online distribution of companies' intellectual property. And he's hopeful that Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates--the smartest man Barlow says he's ever met--will hatch a plan to control the Internet that is so ridiculous that it will spark a public boycott that ultimately will topple the software giant. The 54-year-old owner of an Apple PowerBook--festooned with Grateful Dead bumper stickers--sat down to chai tea in his rent-controlled apartment overlooking San Francisco. Donning black leather pants, cowboy boots, a turquoise necklace and a cell phone earplug, the self-declared "techno hippie" talked to CNET News.com about dot-communism, cattle ranching and the hallucinations of the masses.
Q: What does a self-titled "cognitive dissident" do all day? In essence, they're in a position to own the human mind itself. The possibility of getting a dissident voice through their channels is increasingly scarce, and the use of copyright as a means of suppressing freedom of expression is becoming more and more fashionable. You've got these interlocking systems of technology and law, where merely quoting something from a copyrighted piece is enough to bring down the system on you.
Which companies or organizations constitute this totalitarian regime? I'm a free marketer and I'm not a fan of regulation. But I'm very concerned about what happens when you have these large organisms with no conscience. And why should they have a conscience? They're not human, and they can operate globally without any constraints.
What dissenting stories aren't getting published? What communities aren't being built because of corporate totalitarianism?
After totalitarianism, what's the next biggest battle brewing in cyberspace?
To play devil's advocate, isn't Microsoft simply selling a product that millions of people are willing to purchase at their own will?
If Windows is so bad, why does Apple have a meager 4 percent market share?
You've been heavily involved in wiring Africa for Internet access. But increasingly, it seems, a new digital divide has emerged--not between the rich and the poor, but between the people who give their consumer data, such as credit card numbers, to corporations, and the privacy zealots who refuse. If this is true, what's the future for the zealots?
Presumably, you'll do more and more purchases online, and presumably, Microsoft will make it more inconvenient for you--unless you provide your consumer data to Passport (the company's database of customer information). At some point, are you going to cave and provide Microsoft your credit card and other data? I'm really worried about this, and I keep praying for guidance. These are really dark times. On practically every front that I care about, the voices of the foes are winning. I have a beleaguered optimism that this isn't going to continue to be the case, but this is a time to have your faith tested, that's for sure.
You paint a pretty gloomy picture. How can we stop Big Brother Inc.?
But again, if this is so nefarious, how do we stop it? And one thing I've noticed about monopoly in the information world is that while this arena is extremely favorable to growing monopolies very quickly, it's also favorable to disintegrating them. I remember a time not that long ago, when 80 percent of all computers on the planet were dedicated WordPerfect servers. Unless you go to a law firm, you aren't going to find any of those now. So I have some faith that, at some point, Microsoft would do something that is so outrageous that they simply alienate the marketplace, and at some point, Linux or some substitute will take over.
Let's talk about copyright laws, which you hate. How would musicians and other artists make a living if, in your perfect world, copyright law was abolished? What you get paid for is the delivery of service. If you're talking about services, it's best not to view what is being served as a form of property.
So should the music industry adopt a publishing model, in which companies give away a newspaper for 25 cents or publish on the open Web but collect revenue from advertisers, referrals or other sources? The Grateful Dead invented viral marketing without really meaning to...We gave our music away. At the time, we did it because we felt there was no way to stop Deadheads from taping it, and besides, we weren't in it for the money, because we weren't making any. But those tapes became the androgen of our success. They spread that virus all over the damn place, and by the time we died, we were the largest-grossing entertainment act in the business because of performances, but not exclusively. The interesting thing is that our records weren't nearly as good as the tapes that a lot of Deadheads made, but they all went platinum. There is a desire on the part of the fan base to actually own the physical objects, in addition to having the music to play.
But I've been to a bunch of Dead shows and know that no other band conducts concerts like the Dead. How do talented musicians who can't tour as well or as often make money? I'm writing now for String Cheese Incident, which is like Grateful Dead 2.0, and they're getting big very fast. Their audience has quadrupled in the past year...They've been making their board tapes available online for some time. At the same time, they have a system where they'll ship you CDs of the concert. People are buying them--in spite of the fact that they can download the music.
You lived in San Francisco in the late '60s and '70s when the Dead were giving free concerts in Golden Gate Park and it was all about free love and be-ins. How has the Bay Area changed--particularly in light of the late 1990s dot-com invasion? The culture that has come up around the economy--and I admit I've personally tried to build this economy--is a culture that I can't stand. It's a good thing I have a sense of paradox. But I really don't like the society that has grown up around the dot-communists, who are all products of suburbia and television.
So when the tech industry imploded and all the dot-communists lost their jobs, returned to business school or groveled in blue-collar jobs, you gloated?
What was the big economic lesson you learned from the tech collapse?
So through the Internet we're creating a new economic paradigm--like the 15th century transition from feudalism to capitalism?
We're transitioning from capitalism to what? There was this belief that you made money from market cap, and there was no difference between a venture capitalist and a customer--that if you sold your product to a VC you were one step further toward your final goal, which was a ridiculous IPO, following which you'd liquidate and spend the rest of your life chasing starlets on the Riviera. This is not a good reason to start a business. Business should be about the simple proposition of creating a product or service that costs you less than you can sell it for. For a long time, we forgot that.
Do you blame yourself at all for fueling the Internet bubble? In fairness, I've always claimed that the long-term effects are going to be far more profound than the short-term effects. At the same time, I was certainly one of the primary promoters that this was the biggest thing that had happened since the capture of fire. I still believe that. But I take a slightly longer-term view of it. The capture of fire didn't revolutionize human society in five years. It took thousands. In this case it's going to take a minimum of a century. These initial exuberances were probably counter-productive, and I fully confess to having fueled those fires.
How do you want to be remembered?
You co-founded EFF for that purpose. Is there still a need for it? I'm convinced that liberty exists in the public's willingness to exercise it. And if people are timid, they're not going to exercise their liberties, and they'll lose them. We have an extremely important function in making people feel there's an organization for them if they want to be brave.
Do a series of mounting attacks on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act give you confidence that copyright laws will someday be struck down?
You've been a Wyoming cattle rancher, a Grateful Dead lyricist and an Internet guru. Which career did you enjoy most?
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